Discipleship
Last night’s discussion seemed to stir up some good stuff. I’d like for us to capitalize on that and keep the conversation going. So whether its tied directly to something that came up during the discussion with Phil or maybe its an idea or question you’ve been thinking about recently…what’s the deal with discipleship? What should we be doing?
August 4th, 2003 at 3:31 pm
The thing that sticks with me most is the comment that our lives should provoke outside people to ask questions. Nobody is asking me questions. I’m concerned.
August 4th, 2003 at 4:57 pm
My “aha” moment was when I finally realized that following Jesus won’t necessarily be easy, because Jesus’s own way wasn’t easy when he was here on earth. I know this seems obvious, but I was operating under the assumption that if I just “did” my faith in the right way, it would all be wonderful and blissful and one big fat land of milk and honey. (Must have been all that marketing and in-church Starbucks.) I kind of thought that the fact that my path is hard meant that I was doing something (ok, most things) wrong. This is particularly dumb, because I don’t think that the misfortunes of others are caused by failings of faith. But (of course) I have been judging myself by a different standard. Anyway, I guess I just (finally!) realized that following Jesus might very well be the hardest thing I ever do, rather than the easiest. Huh. That boggles my mind.
August 4th, 2003 at 9:04 pm
The most interesting thing to me was the idea of the “circle of assent” and our/my obsession with knowing if we are “in” the circle or out and if others are “in” or out. I know its scary to evangelicals to think that it may be a bit more complicated and mystical than that. My fear is that if I don’t KNOW, then how will I survive? How will I categorize? How will I know I’m doing OK? How will I know how to talk to people? Bottom line - how will I know that I’m safe? Which is what I really want to be - safe. But life is not safe. The gospel is sure, but not safe. Its true, but not predictable.
I’m mostly struck by how quickly we jumped to the new circle in our discussion. I think that new circle was the “where do we live and what do others, including Phil, think of that”. I think it was a good topic for discussion and something to be seriously considered, but I’m intriqued by how quickly we jumped off the road of talking about following Jesus (a somewhat nebulous-feeling topic) into a tactical discussion about how we could get to where the folks in Chicago are going.
I really left encouraged that God is doing this work in us. I really feel a sense of “us”. I’m spending a lot of time NOT being threatened by people - this is new. I believe I’m a disciple alongside so many of you. I want to know each of you.
I left feeling that something is on the horizon for us that we couldn’t (and still can’t) plan for or think up. I feel it is going to be revealed soon. I am excited and nervous all at the same time. I want to be ready to say “yes”.
August 4th, 2003 at 10:26 pm
Do you trust Him? Does spending time with each other help? What should we be doing to/for/with each other to make it hard not to trust Him?
I left excited about working out these issues - and really glad that we can do THIS without any distraction of “living up to our marketing”.
August 5th, 2003 at 8:09 am
I really liked how Phil kept reminding us that rather than it being about “us and them”, it is about us- collectively- being a “people of God”. It reminded me of 1 Peter where “we” are described as a chosen nation and priests to the world.
The whole “circle” or “box” thing really freaked me out. A good freak out not a bad one. Mollie and I were talking later that night, and I said, “There really is no box is there?” The next morning, I woke up with this thought:
If there is no box- no standardized list of criteria for “being a Christ follower” or “being saved” or “serving Christ”- then what God wants of me is limitless. In other words, I have to leave my boxes behind in this journey. Coming from a place where I claimed to not be about boxes but spent all of my time collecting boxes and putting people and things into them and being evaluated on my ability to do so was NOT in essence discipleship. Where I was, I thought I could look God in the face and tell Him that I was giving Him “all of me” because giving Him all of me meant that I had done the things prescribed be the box. Now that there is no box- there is no prescription- I realize that the possibilities are endless- with no list to follow or endorse- all I can see is Christ’s face right in front of me- and it is terrifying and exhilirating at the same time. It is scary because I have no idea where He is going to take me (us) but it is freeing and exhilirating because I feel like the prison doors of the box have just been flung open.
I agree with Bryan in that I am excited to see where Christ is going and where we will follow.
August 5th, 2003 at 12:08 pm
The idea of Jesus walking in front of me, then turning, looking over His shoulder to catch a glimpse of me following reminds me of The Chronicles of Narnia, CS Lewis picked a Lion for the children to follow…And when they look at Him they are both warmed and terrified at the same time.
Most of you know this but…the whole narrative is journey. They follow Aslan, they walk towards something He has told them to walk toward. He finds them, or places creatures around them, to find them when they are astray.
But there is constant movement, uncertainty, dancing with trees, temptations. Some people join their journey, some do not. So, as we follow Him (and not a marketing plan/discipleship plan/evangelism plan) our journey (not our righteousness) becomes “the goal”. Our whole journey, animated by the Holy Spirt, is what causes people to ask “interesting questions.”
August 5th, 2003 at 9:17 pm
Well I used to have a long comment but somehow blew it away. Oh well. During short search I found seven challenges for (not to) discipleship at http://www.discipleship.net. I have only skimmed the content thus far, but I don’t think we should mistake these challenges as a completion list or a box of answers. They appear to give good insight into what discipleship should be. I especially like the final challenge. It is titled Worship Lifestyle and talks about living out our lives at all times in worship of God. The last sentence is “Be a worshiper all the time, rather than an occasional groupy.”
August 6th, 2003 at 5:16 pm
I too enjoyed the discussion Sunday night. The word “journey” keeps coming up alot, and I think it can be a valid discription of our movement in life, but I would offer just a little caution not to get too “hand-wavy/ethereal/nebulous” in our thinking of our lives that way. There is a fixed pathway for us to follow, so on our journey we are not just wandering. We have Jesus Christ as our guide, and He is calling us to make straight the paths. I’m suspicious that that may mean clearing alot of boxes out of the way! I’m thankful that Jesus left us a trip-tix by way of his written Word to give us directions. But too often I don’t take the time to ask for directions and spend a great deal of effort trying to find my own way or the perfect shortcut. I’m learning that is much better to get good directions in advance and to check in frequently during the trip!
My favorite part of Sunday night was Phil challenging us to live boldly for Jesus. He reminded us that there is enough grace to cover our mistakes as we go. It made me think of Peter. He lived life BOLDLY! And he screwed up a few times that have been recorded for posterity. I doubt that any of my screw-ups will be remembered 2000 years from now. (At least I hope not!) I intend to move out more boldly from this point on, not recklessly or without thought for others, but boldly and in love. Can’t wait to continue the discussion.
August 6th, 2003 at 9:15 pm
A few things have been rolling around in my brain since our time with Phil. One idea is that faith means trust. I think it’s a helpful picture to prompt my evaluation of my own faithfulness. What exactly have I put my trust in? Feel free to help me see what some of those things are.
I was also comforted and encouraged by the thought that God’s plan for our lives is to bring about wholeness — in every way; even in ways I cannot wrap my little brain around. How beautiful to spend a life seeking wholeness in relationships. I thought it fit so well with our discussion on encouragement. For, why else would we be doing it?
I am so glad to be asking questions with you all. I feel the pleasure of God in it.
August 7th, 2003 at 7:04 pm
Hey family. I have lots of thoughts. I just posted some to my blog… it’s shorter to point you there than to write them again.
Besides what I posted there, the main thing that struck me was the concept of Shalom. I am intrigued and pulled towards it. I want to know and live in and radiate Shalom. Wholeness, redemption, salvation, healing, love…. wow.